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Re: tank discussion

Postby Xen » 15 Apr 2014 11:52

I want the 570 damage HESH for the FV like it was on 1st test. ;(



And I hope the replacement will keep HESH and not get the stupid generic high pen HEAT.
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Re: tank discussion

Postby kihrEx » 15 Apr 2014 11:55

Xensation wrote:I want the 570 damage HESH for the FV like it was on 1st test. ;(


And I hope the replacement will keep HESH and not get the stupid generic high pen HEAT.


I have the same wishes O:)
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Re: tank discussion

Postby Daedal__ » 15 Apr 2014 13:22

H311fi5h wrote:Dislike? I like it. At least a lot better than M48 and M60.
But you have to be realistic. 40 top speed is a very limiting factor for a medium. Also It has no high pen gold shells for E 100 turrets and such. It is fun and ok balance wise but it's not really a good tank by any stretch of the imagination. Still my most played t10 medium.


Was not being fully serious, I know it has its flaws, but I still like it.
Although it is true that I would not say no to a buff, I considered 3. My favorite would be hard turret armor, so that it could bounce because of armor not because of lucky autobounces. Second option give it great stabilization so that it would not have to worry about turret armor as much, because it would not have to sit out aiming for so long and accuracy on the move would be MUCH appreciated. Third option is ofcourse speed buff, but I am not sure that would give it that much actually, would help on some maps, but thats all, but I would not mind some +8 km/h buff.



Xensation wrote:I want the 570 damage HESH for the FV like it was on 1st test. ;(



And I hope the replacement will keep HESH and not get the stupid generic high pen HEAT.


Actually I would want penetration buff, +20 to 40 (or more if they feeling generous), because at this moment you cant reliably penetrate T62a, even more so if hull is angled a bit, and Obj140 you can pen only if you drive in its face and use gun depression to decrease UFP angle. I see HESH as a something that would help it dominate other mediums, but it cant as the penetration is too little. Only reliable penetrations you can have is on bat, leo, STB and somewhat the Pattons and if you hit outer optics, tracks, or any other thing as the stabilization is not good on FV4202. So I would prefer more pen.
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Re: tank discussion

Postby H311fi5h » 15 Apr 2014 13:35

Just give HESH its own distinct mechanic, different from HE. I mean the point of HESH is not penetrating armor in the first place. Making it a penetrating shell with more damage makes no sense.
But sooner or later the FV4204 will be replaced anyway and i'm really curious what they will come up with. I'm more worried about the 215b though. It is probably my favorite Tier 10 right now, i just pray Chieftain can hold up to that.
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Re: tank discussion

Postby Daedal__ » 15 Apr 2014 14:11

H311fi5h wrote:Just give HESH its own distinct mechanic, different from HE. I mean the point of HESH is not penetrating armor in the first place. Making it a penetrating shell with more damage makes no sense.
But sooner or later the FV4204 will be replaced anyway and i'm really curious what they will come up with. I'm more worried about the 215b though. It is probably my favorite Tier 10 right now, i just pray Chieftain can hold up to that.


About the HESH I must agree, but the WG were too lazy and wanted to get done with brits faster, so they went with the cheapest way possible...
Then again what sort of mechanic give to it? I have been thinking about this myself quite a bit. Basically you could give it higher critical chance, but if seriously we all know how it sucks to drive in a crippled tank. You do not wish to drive with half crippled tank because someone 400m away just spamed at you shells without aiming.
The other option would be give it extreeme damage capability, like 800 or 900 explosive dmg for 105 caliber shell, but then again it would be a pain again. Imagine again that guy sitting 400m away and spaming HESH at you dealing (800(+/-25%) /2 - armor (- distance if track splash)), lets say -250 to 350 dmg without aiming just spaming EVERY 8 seconds, ok E100 may be able to cope with that but IS4, T110e5, E50m, M103 would all be fucked if just a part of them was possible to hit, think about that 43% HE spaming monkey!
As you said penetration does not make sense for HESH (have read about HESH), but fuck it, what if we gave HESH super normalization like 20 to 40 degrees? sounds interesting. Explanation would be that it goes pancake and at too big angles the pancake is just too spread out to be effective.

Those are the ideas I can remember at the moment that I had. Any other good ideas?


And about FV4204 replacement I am seriously scared, because at the moment it looks like the biggest chance is for Vickers MBT to replace it, and from what I have looked up it sucks, in comparison even less armor (a lot less), less gun depression (-7 I think), Bigger in size (means also a lot worse cammo), and the speed increase is not even that great, plus I think there were problems with good enough engine. It looks just horrid.
There was also Action-X , Do not have much info on that.
They could just uber buff tier 9 centurion, only would need something to put in the new missing link spot.
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Re: tank discussion

Postby H311fi5h » 15 Apr 2014 14:47

Maybe less damage but completely ignoring the armor. But you still have to hit a flat surface at a good angle.
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Re: tank discussion

Postby Xen » 15 Apr 2014 14:56

even less dmg would be totally useless
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Re: tank discussion

Postby H311fi5h » 15 Apr 2014 15:18

I don't think so. If you can do ~300 damage against anything, no matter how thickly armored, that could be quite strong. Imagine being able to do that to a hull down E3, a mouse upper front, an IS-7 turret etc. Things you can't even reliably damage with the highest pen guns. But it would also reward a pretty noobish playstyle, thats the main problem.
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Re: tank discussion

Postby Xen » 15 Apr 2014 15:35

1) It'd be just as situational as HESH is now
2) It'd make it just another retard ammo like HEAT for tards who are too lazy to flank/aim.
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Re: tank discussion

Postby H311fi5h » 15 Apr 2014 16:14

2) is true but i would be much closer to how HESH really works. When they invented the stuff they probably didn't pay much attention to gameplay. (I guess rl weapon development is considered good especially if it is noob proof).
Of course you can always say fuck realism it has to be fun, but then why give it HESH in the first place.
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Re: tank discussion

Postby Xen » 15 Apr 2014 16:15

to give it a different kind of ammo I guess :P
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Re: tank discussion

Postby dUG1 » 15 Apr 2014 16:30

100k till FV42 and I gotta say, Cent 7 is my new favorite medium tank.

70% winrate solo randoms :dealwithit:

Since FV42 seems to be meh and they are replacing it Soon(TM), buffed Centurion 7 as a replacement is not a bad idea actually.

Imo:
Remove the huge turret weakpoints (above the mantlet, even higher pen HE can go through there :deadseal: ), give it a bit more spaced armor on the mantlet, move ammo rack somewhere else than the lower plate, fix rear transmission wheel hit = HP damage "feature" (the most retarded thing ever on UK tree) + give it a few mm more armor on the sides for sidescrapping, and also, when it becomese available, have a second suspension with removed skirts an option for sexy look <3
And ofc, buff that crap RoF in line with other tier X meds.

Last but not least, rename it to Centurion 9 or 10 and thats it, perfectly viable tier X med.

As for FV42, IIRC, Chieftain said it never had anything but the 20 pounder.
With that armor and gun, it could be a perfect tier 8 medium (gud Pershing alternative), or buffed enough, brought down a tier (but again, it would need L7 for that).
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Re: tank discussion

Postby wetlioN » 17 Apr 2014 11:00

- FV4202, KV-5, IS-7 and T-34-3 are not on the list, T57 Heavy will also not be nerfed, Object 430 will not be buffed
- Churchill Gun Carrier is actually suddenly doing really fine statistically, one of the best vehicles on its tier
- it’s possible (SS: as in NOT certain) that WT E-100 will be nerfed (“he stands out but only a little”)
- KV-1S will not be nerfed in 9.1, but later


:speshul: :speshul: :speshul:
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Re: tank discussion

Postby Sekundenkleber » 17 Apr 2014 13:03

Did i mention that batchat T9 arty is HIIILARIOUS? <3
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Re: tank discussion

Postby Xen » 17 Apr 2014 13:38

veitileiN wrote:- FV4202, KV-5, IS-7 and T-34-3 are not on the list, T57 Heavy will also not be nerfed, Object 430 will not be buffed
- Churchill Gun Carrier is actually suddenly doing really fine statistically, one of the best vehicles on its tier
- it’s possible (SS: as in NOT certain) that WT E-100 will be nerfed (“he stands out but only a little”)
- KV-1S will not be nerfed in 9.1, but later


:speshul: :speshul: :speshul:

They said earlier that the T9 VK is not on the list either...




so...



what the fuck is actually on that list???? :angryseal:
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Re: tank discussion

Postby H311fi5h » 17 Apr 2014 13:51

- KV-1S will not be nerfed in X.X, but later

Same shit for how many patches now?
I just can not understand, why they are so fucking bad at balancing. Just buff or nerf 50-100 tanks every patch, just by a little. It doesn't have to be perfect the first time.
Did you ever see a Dota patchlog? Almost every hero in the game gets some minor changes every time (something like -1 base armor or +0.2 intelligence gain etc.)
Everything is better than nothing. Just tweak small stuff like aim time, rate of fire, ground resistence, traverse, view range... There is so much that can be changed without the need to rebalance an entire class of tanks. Like the t10 tds for example - why nerf 10 different parameters of the Obj. 268 at once? I can understand that they didn't want to change the alpha for just one gun, but why didnt they nerf reverse speed and traverse much earlier?
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Re: tank discussion

Postby wetlioN » 17 Apr 2014 13:53

Xensation wrote:
veitileiN wrote:- FV4202, KV-5, IS-7 and T-34-3 are not on the list, T57 Heavy will also not be nerfed, Object 430 will not be buffed
- Churchill Gun Carrier is actually suddenly doing really fine statistically, one of the best vehicles on its tier
- it’s possible (SS: as in NOT certain) that WT E-100 will be nerfed (“he stands out but only a little”)
- KV-1S will not be nerfed in 9.1, but later


:speshul: :speshul: :speshul:

They said earlier that the T9 VK is not on the list either...




so...



what the fuck is actually on that list???? :angryseal:

some of those:
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who cares about that shit anyway
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Re: tank discussion

Postby wetlioN » 17 Apr 2014 13:57

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Re: tank discussion

Postby nkouhoe » 18 Apr 2014 18:40

Add those other crashes too where you cant get back into the game afterwards...
Awesome update :/
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Re: tank discussion

Postby Bowser_nl » 18 Apr 2014 18:42

Luckily its comfirmed we get the option to disable those out of place looking HD models in the future. Thank god.
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